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JB

1490 post s
27-Mar-2006
12:24 PM
The story of two Palestinians who prepare to take their lives for the cause they believe in. They are what we know as "suicide bombers." The film doesn't glorify or condemn them. Instead it paints a realistic picture of their world -- a reservation, a camp, and the dangers of crossing and resisting. Also -- loving families, good friends, sound ideals, dangerous indoctrination -- and historically justified bitterness.

There is also a female character, who was raised outside of her homeland Palestine. Her character provides a different perspective -- one of nonviolent action.

The fate of each of the two friends takes a surprising turn. While not a masterpiece like _Divine Intervention_, this film is worthwhile for anyone to see and reflect upon -- no matter where you stand on the Israeli/Palestinian issue.

jopaku

166 post s
27-Mar-2006
5:19 PM
It does glorify them if it in any way attempts to humanize them.
The palestinian "cause" is so revered among the extreme left because it is so directly anti-american in inspiration and motivation.

Would they give an oscar to a film that focused on Timothy McViegh and whatever indoctrination he went through?

Every bad/evil act has a sad beginning as well a horrific ending.

What is the purpose of telling a story unless there is a point to be made?

Did the maker of this film really want to be non-judgemental?

I would guess that your average "HOMICIDE bomber" is less motivated by politics (or what they believe in) and more so by the other pressures put on them.(family, religious indoctrination, etc)

And wouldn't you say that the fears of the jews are historically justified?
They are surrounded by those that have called for their annihilation long before Israel was ever a state.

The recent elections by the Palestinians have given them even more to fear.

JB

1492 post s
28-Mar-2006
2:11 PM
Before I address your specific points (many of which we have discussed before), might I just suggest you see the movie?

And yes, Jo -- it had a point. It depicted three very different responses to Palestinian oppression -- violent, non-violent, and conflicted. It dealt with the effects to Palestinian and Israelis alike. I suspect your main beef is that you believe Palestinian oppression simply doesn't exist or that if it does, then it is deserved. Or perhaps Palestinian perspectives don't merit attention, only Israeli? That the situation is clear cut and simple? Your message reads that way.

If you won't walk the streets of Ramallah, it won't hurt you to see the film.

jopaku

168 post s
28-Mar-2006
3:47 PM
It's easy to say "play fair" when we are thousands of miles away.
The lack of evolution in the Islamic world gives Israelis (and the rest of the world) every right to be on edge, and perhaps a bit hyper-defensive when dealing with the palestinians.
I could, maybe even would, agree with every favorable thing you can say about the nature of the palestinian people and it wouldn't matter.
They had a chance to free themselves from those who truly oppress them and instead they voted for them in the recent election.
It is like a cult, only it's not kool-aid that's being passed out, but bombs.

This is basically an atheist website (it seems like everyone here is), which I can respect.
What I don't understand is the total avoidance of what is by far the most oppressive religion on earth today. You can't rationally compare even the most fundamentalist of christian sects to any form of practised Islam.

There should be no need to mention what it must be like to be a muslim woman.
I do believe they are taking over the world, and the world is letting them.
Did you know that the U.N. is trying to make it a violation of international law to ridicule the image of muhammed?

I am convinced we will all be muslim slaves in our lifetimes.

Farouk

1 post
29-Mar-2006
6:37 PM
oh i see. all muslims are the same. just as all christians are the same. as all jews are the same. they all have the same view points on their religion. that's one of the problems, when we put "they" in a monolithic, unthinking frame of reference. Are all Americans the same? Even, all Republicans? Are there not Israeli's who belived that the occupation of the Palestinian people by Israel is moraly wrong and is the cause of attacks? Just as there are Israli's who don't even consider the Palestinians as even a people who merit any kind of consideration? If you say no, you are lying to yourself. My point being is that people of JOPAKU's yolk put all muslsims in the same category only to support their point.
jopaku

169 post s
29-Mar-2006
8:33 PM
I did not say that all muslims are the same. I would say that all muslim governments APPEAR to be the same.

My defense of Israel was an attempt to explain in MY opinion why they handle the situation in an aggressive manner.

I also was trying to point out the hypocrisy of those who are fervantly anti-religous yet give a free pass to a religion that when practised in a fundamentalist manner, is extremely violent and oppressive.

I am aware that muslims in america do not condemn converts to christianity to death. I am just glad they do not get a chance to vote on it.

Maybe the comment about becoming a muslim slave was a little over the top, but I do think all the groundwork for a successful revolution is in place.
There are experts in revolutionary theory on this site, perhaps they will comment. (If they ever come over to the movie section)
When Israel falls, the world will fall.

I don't agree with him on foriegn policy, but this is a good article. Check out the numbers in the poll.

http://www.wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=49466

me.

1087 post s
30-Mar-2006
3:22 AM
Israel is an illegal state, which has exceeded the borders agreed upon under partition, has attacked its neighbours since then, and evicted or bulldozed its way through houses which are on land that never belonged to judaea at any point in history.
If you had any knowledge of the geography of judaea at the time of exodus, you'd know that even then most of the 'holy land' or 'promised land' was always in palestinian hands.

For example, just north of tel-aviv (joppa) stretching all the way to galilee was sarmatia and galilee. Nazareth is in galilee. Israel claims this land as jewish. Since when?

Down in the negev lived some arabs called, I think it was the nebateans.
Judaea was tiny.
Israel has more claim to alexandria and antioch (for their large jewish populations) and new york and kiev than it does to most of Israel.

That is, if you care about either legality, ethnicity, history or preserving world peace!

Muslim slaves? What a load of cobblers- they believe such idiotic things that, apart from the idiots of the bible belt, they won't be getting any converts. You'd have to be pretty weak willed to fall for a deism which worships dirty old arabs and expects you to live in the 12th century.

 

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