El Dude
6 post s
9-Feb-2008
1:31 PM
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http://www.mercurynews.com/ci_8186256?source=most_viewed when does freedom of speech go too far?
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nokangaroos
145 post s
21-Feb-2008
4:44 PM
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And what exactly do you want to say, oh Embarrassed One?
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JB
Guest
0 post
22-Feb-2008
5:22 PM
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Ain't that how democracy is supposed to work?
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jopaku
281 post s
22-Feb-2008
8:35 PM
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That's how fascists work.
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JB
Guest
0 post
22-Feb-2008
9:34 PM
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Hi Jo! In your view, who are the facists and how do they work?
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El Dude
8 post s
23-Feb-2008
12:55 AM
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ok, here's my take: if berkeley wants to bash the war, go for it - it was a HUGE mistake. trash the pres? well, he makes it easy, he should be fired on his last day so we dont have to pay his pension with our tax dollars for the rest of his life. even criticize some high end generals/admirals if you think they are making decisions based more on politics and careerbuilding than on whats the best way to accomplish a military mission, cuz some of them have been known to do that, from lieutenants all the way up. but for them to slam the entire marine corp is as bad as saying all asian people are good at math and know kung fu. for a city council to say that one organization (code pink)has more right to freedom of speech than another (USMC)goes against the very principle of equality that this country is supposedly based on. code pink has their right to speak just as much as the marines, and yes, just as much as berkeley city council, but encouraging the community to "...impede the work of any military recruiting station in the city..." and to give a parking space to code pink right in front of the recruiting office is plain and simple harrassment, not to mention childish and unprofessional behavior for a city council as well as abuse of civic authority. can you imagine a city council in the bible belt giving the same authority to harass an abortion clinic, naacp office, mosque or some other organization just because they dont agree with what they say? HELL NO that wouldnt be acceptable there, and it shouldnt be acceptable in berkeley either. i dont agree with punishing the university for the council's actions, but the council should be sanctioned somehow. i am not a peacenik, a warhawk, a liberal, or a conservative, but if it looks like bullshit, smells like bullshit, and feels like bullshit, thats what i am gonna call it.
Last Edited on 23-Feb-2008 1:04 AM
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jopaku
282 post s
23-Feb-2008
7:59 AM
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The fascists are the council and Code Pink. They are not satisfied with just expressing their opinion, they have to suppress the opinion of others as well. By harassing those that are walking in to a recruitment center, they are violating their civil rights. They are not just protesting the war, but the idea of having a military at all.
Why are pro-life picketers thrown into jail, but Code Pinkers are actually enabled to be disruptive and antagonistic by getting council approval?
Code Pink is the organization that first made a name for itself by standing outside Walter Reed during visiting hours and harassing the family members of severely wounded soldiers.
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nokangaroos
146 post s
23-Feb-2008
8:28 AM
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Well said, Dude. I really didn´t know what you mean ;).
The problem is not that they violated the First and the Fourteenth, but Sect.8 USC. The Corps is not exactly a private organization. But then, what did you expect? Berkeley has been ready to declare an autonomous reefer republic for some 50 years at the drop of a pink tutu (don´t get me wrong: I hold that the war is idiotic, an international crime, a violation of US law and the Constitution, and the way it is executed causes me stomach cramps.)
However, I have to concede them one tiny point: USMC recruiting practices really sometimes smack on preying on the stupid.
(the regulars have been discussing this
here some time ago. Look up "my "obligation" to serve" in the archive. I think the Berkeley case is another good point for reinstating the draft(g). Unless, of course, you prefer the "involuntary servitude" argument ;b)
Last Edited on 23-Feb-2008 8:32 AM
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El Dude
9 post s
23-Feb-2008
9:16 AM
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yeah, recruiters of all branches have been known to be equally devious, and its not till you are already in till you find out if your recruiter sold you a load or not, or if the guy next to you was a recruiter's desperate efforts to make his quota. i've seen a few of those guys myself. nobody hates a recruiter more than the guy thats already in and discovers he's been lied to, but that dont give berkeley cc or code pink the right to do/say what they are trying to do/say. if they keep going down that path, they will be no better than any other extremist group.
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JB
1742 post s
23-Feb-2008
11:00 AM
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I simply think Code Pink, usually sanctioned outsiders, are providing a check and balance to the long established recruiting techniques. This provides more info and a wider view, to which some young people have not yet been exposed.
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JB
1743 post s
23-Feb-2008
11:17 AM
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What I think is interesting here at the we are focusing on the protesters, which is almost parenthetical in the article. The real issue is cutting public funds on important city programs, such as Berkleys's progressive lunch program. It anything, that's fascist, or criminal, call it what you will. What is most important here? El Dude, of course I agree that military personnel should not be uniformily slammed as they are wildy diverse people who have ended up there for a variety reasons, and many are very, very good people who have endured terrible things. But recruiting young people is another matter... I've seen them in action many times. Often they are liers and wildly uninformed about politics and world affairs. I've made it a point to talk to them often, and the results are astounding.
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jopaku
287 post s
23-Feb-2008
6:43 PM
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You are right about the city council being the real issue. They should be taking care of the school lunch programs instead of overstepping their bounds and trying to make political statements about foriegn policy. Worry about Berkeley, not Baghdad. Let them run for congress if they feel their current position doesn't match their ego.
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