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Discussion/Debate Board!>
And you hope the next prez will be...?
JB
1740 post s
22-Feb-2008
9:39 PM
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Let's hear it. Could be Obama or McCain or Clinton or Huckabee OR anyone of your choosing...
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jopaku
283 post s
23-Feb-2008
8:04 AM
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I was supporting Duncan Hunter. Then Mitt Romney. Now the best I could hope for is for McCain to pick a really strong VP, and then keel over 3 months into his Presidency.
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JB
1746 post s
23-Feb-2008
11:28 AM
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Aw, Jo, poor Jo! This will not be your decade! Why do you like Mitt? Nothing redeeming about Obama?
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jopaku
285 post s
23-Feb-2008
6:27 PM
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I basically do like Obama. I think everyone does. I'm not sure what he would be like as President. Would he turn way left, or turn towards the center? At times he reminds me of a JFK, but then other times he seems more like a 70's type liberal, inept but harmless(Walter Mondale?), providing he doesn't become President.(Carter!) The reason I started to like Romney is that he seems like a pragmatic guy. He seemed the most "Presidential" out of all the candidates, and I could see him genuinely trying to please everyone, but without being a pushover. I could probably agree with McCain on 75% of the issues, but somehow that doesn't seem enough for me anymore. I want more than just issues. I want progress. I would probably agree with Romney only about half the time, but I had the feeling more progress would be made overall. Stubborness is only occasionally an attribute in politics. Other times it just causes stagnation.
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JB
1747 post s
23-Feb-2008
7:11 PM
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I don't see the qualities you find in ole Mitt, but certainly agree with your last sentiments about progress and not stagnation. One reason I am not a Clinton supporter. (I'd take her over McCain, but with my head in my hands... they are really not that different policy or progress-wise in my view.) What do you see as a few of the most important issues facing the country and the positions that should be taken on these?
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jopaku
288 post s
23-Feb-2008
7:44 PM
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The issue is jobs. I know so many people who have to hold two or three jobs just to support their family. The thing is that their main job is usually one that 20 years ago would have been considered well paying. 15 years ago I was making about 50% more than I am now, for basically the same work. Too many jobs are leaving the country, and too many people are coming in to compete for those that are left. Hillary, Obama, or McCain are not the answer. They don't even recognize that there is a problem.
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miguel
158 post s
29-Feb-2008
2:09 PM
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I'm down for Obama. I can't really put it down right now but he's said things that are usually just heard from regular people at a lunch table arguing about why things are going the way they are. Those kind of comments that are 'wishful thinking' and you know that people in power will always ignore and be oblivious about. That kind of connection - having someone in power that actually has the same concerns as those powerless that are wondering why things don't change has made me very interested in the man. 2nd best would be Hillary. I just don't like republicans - I'm a bit guilty of pigeon-holing them as religious, homophobes and pushy about issues of decency and militaristic patriotism (but... aren't they?). I just don't like anyone that brags about being a war 'hero' and putting the spotlight in himself. The first 2 things I see when I go to McCain's website are war glorifying. That kind of impression leaves a very bad taste in my mouth... About that job deal... Jopaku, many other countries 'job' destination has been the USA for decades! The fact that people are now starting to leave this 'job mecca' only proves that we're slowly starting to see a world that not only has 1 or 2 big players in town - but many. And the USA is getting hurt because of this - it's trying too hard to cling to it's spot as the number 1 when probably it should instead cooperate with the world's other rising economies and work for a more balanced world economy - not one where the big players are constantly trying to keep their spot by getting themselves into ever more messy ordeals. Obama to me, seems the one to have that world view that aims to play the right cards in this new trend of other rising world powers. Would we rather keep trying to be the number 1 and damn the consequences?
Last Edited on 29-Feb-2008 2:19 PM
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jopaku
289 post s
29-Feb-2008
4:10 PM
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What rising economies are you referring to? China? Russia? Dubai? Companies are not taking their business elsewhere to help other countries. They are merely taking advantage of a cheap, sometimes even slave labor force. It's not about being number one. It's about maintaining a middle class america. Is the average mexican better off since nafta? It's corporations that are getting richer, and there is no trickle down. America is not number one. International conglomerates are.Breaking down nations does not make one big, happy, family. Whatever your thoughts about America being too big for perhaps too long are, it is being replaced by something much bigger. It's the New World Order, and we are all being sucked right in to it. We don't get to vote on who runs that.
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miguel
159 post s
29-Feb-2008
5:26 PM
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I didn't say that America should keep exploiting the rest of the world , I'm definitely against America benefiting greatly from the cheap labor offered by Mexican sweatshops... my comment was actually inspired by something i watched on tv said by 'specialists'... the post world war II is one created by the ideas of those that won. (world bank, UN, etc) : organizations that attempt to create a 'world system'. But at the forefront of these systems are the big boys, right? I guess that's what the New World Order is and it's been here for a long time in my opinion - the ever shrinking borders of communication and transportation that can bring coca cola to every single corner of the world! yay! It keeps happening and I don't see it stop. So now other countries are able to play the role of big boy - or of medium boy for that matter. The point was that you can't expect to live by the same standards today as when America really was one of the only wealthy countries. So if you're unhappy that today you get only paid half the amount you'd get paid being a plumber you're whining about the inevitable. And how long can a system that strives on the exploitation of poorer nations survive? it's crumbling right now, and that's what's happening. So what I think is, that the relationships between these countries (all powerful economic big boys) needs to be observed not in the matter of learning how to exploit these other countries better so that we can keep making exorbitant amounts of money working cashier at Office Depot, but in the matter of creating a more balanced economic relationship. I think the imbalance in standards of living between nations is now the responsibility of the big players in the world economy since we've created a system that is entangling everybody in the same web!I agree it was a diluted comment that came from a thought implanted in my by the idiot box ... here exactly (go to minute 35!!): http://www.charlierose.com/shows/2008/02/26/1/a-conversation-with-timothy-garton-ash-alistair-horne-and-john-burns they said some really interesting things there that would interest you guys.
Last Edited on 29-Feb-2008 5:34 PM
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nokangaroos
147 post s
4-Mar-2008
11:05 PM
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(snicker)I seem to remember someone describing himself as a "McCain Republican". That must have been in a previous life ;b. But let´s start clockwise: Kucinich dropped out early, as was to be expected (alas). Edwards, for all his greasy toyboy persona, had some good ideas. I read elsewhere he was the only candidate Big Business was afraid of. Not being Big Business I cannot independently verify that, but I think he was the last candidate an intelligent Lefty could vote for in good conscience. Now the race has deteriorated to "not male" vs "not white". As Ted Rall bitingly observed, if Dems really cannot decide between the dragon lady and Blackula, they should seriously consider nominating Condi Rice (g). The best that can be said about Hillary is that she´s been President twice already, so she´s more or less a known variable. Obama is a little TOO slick - I do not like that in politicians. And he plays on emotions too much without actually saying anything - I do not like that either. Of course, the thought of his race hustler psycho wifey sitting in the WH "healing" and "uniting" makes me cringe.On the other side of the aisle, McCain has it wrapped up. His temper would mean a foreign policy disaster not seen since the times of Caligula, but not much worse than Dubya. As for certain other problems - when I´m senator, I want all my lobbyists to look like that; maybe a bit taller, a bit better muscled, a bit more wood before the hooch, maybe a redhead every now and then (hint,hint ;b). It has been suggested McCain planted the story himself so he wouldn´t look too old; not implausible, considering the level of discourse. Hunter was good, but a bit too reasonable to leave an impression. Romney was too manifestly rich. Huckabee was too divisive. Tancredo was too single issue. I admit to a certain faible for Dr. No. I´m not a strict constructionist and I think some of his libertarian ideas ought to be tempered with a little socialism, but when in doubt, the Constitution provides a safe fallback. The only principled opposition to the war, apart from Kucinich; forget Hussein´s claims. Plus, I have come to like the worldview of old physicians - humani nil alienum. They have a unique understanding of the meaning of life itself. THIS could be healing, foreign and domestic. The only serious drawback is that he´s an open borderer. So, give me a Paul/Kucinich or Edwards ticket with Tancredo as AG, and we have a deal. Of course, this is cloud cuckoo´s land. All the serious candidates are corporatists to make a pig barf, warmongers, open borderers and gun grabbers (i.e. deny individual liberty). On all these counts, McCain is probably the worst, but there´s really not that much difference. So: If you are pigmented and expect handouts, vote for Her - Obama doesn´t have to pander (ref.:Macchiavelli). If you are currently employing more than five illegals (especially in a defense-related sector), vote for McCain. If you are a gun owner, shoot them all. If you are the rest, I do not envy you the choice. I never thought I´d live to see the day Nader looks attractive ;b
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JB
1748 post s
5-Mar-2008
9:41 PM
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Ah yes, cloud cuckoo’s land (Kucinich/Edwards/maybe Paul, or pick your order) would have actually created a more equitable and ethical world. Alas, a world with lots of badly dyed hair and fake teeth, but more ethical and equitable regardless. (Yes, there are always contradictions!) It is really too bad that the people who walk the walk that really could create the change are always the first to be counted out. Mostly because they don’t listen to the PR folk. Tangent: Man, I love Gravel. That crazy but totally righteous old coot. As for McCain, I don’t care about his alleged past with a lobbyist, other than the irony that he has always opposed lobbyists and advocated transparent elections -- the one political issue I respect him for. The reason he is scary is he would keep us in wars, keep people dying, and in the eyes of the world we would be offering Bush lite, which is sort of like Hitler breath mints. So I am finding myself in agreement with NoKangs on these points. I have no breath I want to waste on the other former Republican candidates, other than to marvel how a person like Huckabee can seem so genuinely good natured and be so mind-bogglingly wacko (creationism, etc.) NoKangs is also correct that neither Barack nor Clinton is much of a threat to "big business" (which seems far too lite a term). However, the differences are more than the gender/race toss-up. Their positions on how to handle Iraq were very clear before this race. (I think if we looked at the archives some of us dreamed of Obama’s presidential candidacy since his early days in the Senate.) But the reality is that Clinton had all the insider knowledge in the world and consciously chose to put thousands of lives in peril by voting to give Bush unlimited powers, and then voting to fund these powers. I don't believe she supports this "war," but made these choices for own political positioning. Too bad she didn't have the insight to know those morally bankrupt votes may be key to her losing the nomination. To me, the lie-invade-plunder issue is profound and so, therefore, are their respective responses. Also, if we aspire to be a democracy, we should obviously be suspicious of political families, just as we should be of oligarchies. Now out pops Nader. And he is still right about everything, even though his tenor is arrogant and abrasive. (Did anyone catch him on the Daily Show this week?) So let him throw his hat in the ring and call out the system. Somebody needs to. But for me, and obviously a refreshingly large amount of people, the only logical option at such a critical time is Obama. Why? We don't know whether or not he can bring political change, but we can pretty sure the entrenchment of McCain and Clinton means they can't. Obama obviously can deliver "hope," which isn't as ephemeral as it sounds. When people’s ways of thinking changes, so do their options. And eventually their actions. I DO hope my son, who is identifiably black in a racial-thinking America, will have the opportunity to watch and remember the election of the first black American president. Reality is that it will have an effect on him and thousands like him -- about their own possibilities, about the notion that eventually gross injustices can end. With Obama's election, the world will see that maybe we aren't as ignorant and ethnocentric as we have appeared and, through policy, behaved. MAYBE he'll make good on focusing on diplomacy and MAYBE he will do it well. He isn't Jesus. In terms of ideas he isn't even Nader or Kucinich! But for better or worse, he is comparable in intelligence and charisma to Kennedy. And we never quite found out where, in the end, that presidency would lead. Given what we know, given this moment in history, people, who want a more equitable, peaceful, and sustainable country and world need to elect Obama. BUT electing Obama means realizing he took a lot money from a lot of the big businesses and health care corps behind many of the problems. So, we need to elect him knowing that it is OUR job to push him like hell to fight, not accept, corruption. It’s significant that masses of people are ready for change, even though we don’t know how deep it goes. Now we need to learn that there is no magic wand and that when we have the best woman or man we can come up with, they work for us, and we all work for our mutual survival fast.
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GreyBLoon
36 post s
10-Mar-2008
8:55 AM
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Since I don't really believe there's a spit of difference on the big issues, I'm going to go for the one who least condescends to the religious right. That pretty much leaves McCain out because he's already sucked up to the witchcraft crowd. And the thought of 4 more years of Republicans has all charm of a basket full of cobras.
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