I won't be shocked if this country ends up with an aging right-winger and another compulsive lier who manipulates through religion and faux-patriotism. If its them in the White Hourse and not the brilliant and impressive Obama(if still not as progressive as I would like,)then it will be more completely tragic than it will be shocking.

McCain lost to bush before, so mcCain is presumably, of poorer quality even than Bush.
And yet, between someone who looks like grandfather, and someone who looks like an egyptian, who is america going to choose?

It doesn't matter what the policies may be. you won't ever get any real change through this two-party either-or method. Or in fact any method where compromise is made from the very outset.

You can't have a changed result with a not-changed method. Like is you have a thing that keeps producing apples, it's gotta be an appletree. But if you want plums, you have to change the tree to a plum tree.
We want the fruit to be 'progressive america', but we keep watering the tree of 'corporate america'. At some point one must stop doing this, chop up the wrong tree, and plant the one we actually want.

"Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results."
Shall we stop it now? We need to first acknowledge, that we have a problem, an addiction to feel-good lies. This country is the greatest, my children are the brightest, I am always a moral person. Lies... it's gotta stop, we have an addiction to being lied to.

At the moment Americans, people, are scared of everything. They will respond to the prospect of uncertainty in an approriate, logical way - by voting as backward-looking as possible. There's a Tradition of freedom, good old days, economic security, strong family values. These things america never had, as each decade keeps looking at the one before as if to say the goodtimes was there then, and yet, they can't have been, coz they say it every decade.

But we want to hear you say, that this dream-past is going to continue. And seeing as it was Grandfather lincoln who delievered it all, and foreign guy who messed it all up, we're going to vote grandfather McCain.

You can see in an earlier post that Republican Jopaku now realizes and a non-whitey can make it to the top office, even though he doesn't think it will be Obama.

This race is very close, so the jury is out. We are definitely a divided country, but Obama exceeded most people's expectations.

The rest of you post I will respond to later. Must snooze.

Of course a Black person will be elected president at some point, whether or not it is now. Although there are still racist crazies galore, the country as a whole becomes less racist with each generation. Look at how successful Obama has been. This is after Colin Powell was urged to run by Republicans and Jackson did so well in the primaries decades ago. Much of America is ready. Black people are in power in every sector. Most of the rest will catch up with time.

More white people need to remember they are not indigenous to the United States. They are foreigners and colonizers. Although Obama's father was from Africa directly, people who look like Obama with African descent have been here essentially as long as the white folk and are every bit as American.

White people who can't grasp they too are of immigrant descent and that black people indeed built as much of the infrastructure of the country, have to read more history. I'm not suggesting you are amongst these people, but it is a fact lagging Americans must accept.

Therefore, I absolutely reject the notion that “grandfather McCain” is more American than Obama, who was always a US citizen and looks like a large segement of Americans.

Why do you say he looks like an Egyptian? That makes no sense.

You point out that because McCain lost previous races to Bush, McCain is of lower quality than Bush. Well, based on that logic, since Bush is so profoundly unpopular, and to many one of the most flagrantly corrupt presidents of all time, McCain being of lower quality makes him a extremely poor choice.

However, I passionately agree that the two party system is a joke. Although I like Obama very much, he ultimately will be tied to the Democrats, and both parties are too entrenched and tied to special interests.

We absolutely need more parties and fresh ideas for this country to begin to fulfill its promise after its short bloody history.

I am a member of the Green party and I respect Independents for rejecting the status quo. We need more third, fourth, fifth, etc parties to have fertile ideas, to be free from special interests, to have genuine reform, and to not repeat the same nonsense over and over and over.

So on that point, I agree with you completely.

Last Edited on 10-Sep-2008 4:46 PM

I say obama looks like an egyptian. If you wrap a cloth around his head, and around Mccains head, which one looks foreign? I bet most of us still believe he is a muslim, secretly working for the other side. It's ironic really, because if either of the candidates has actually been brainwashed by a foreign power to become president at any cost in order to then destroy america (as in the plot of manchurian candidate), it will have been McCain.
McCain is secretly a communist, waiting to be activated by his Hanoi masters, the day after he swears the oath.
Where's the democrats balls, though?
Republicans imply that obama is osama; and right here we've got THE MANCHURIAN CANDIDATE infiltrating the republican party, posing as a war hero, ready at any moment to deliver nuclear secrets to Ho Chi Min City. Gold dust if democrats had the balls to spread the rumour - why not start it, whats there to lose? see if it takes hold. It may be a rumour, but it may actually be true, you know...
use it in your next gym/table/work conversation, see if anyone warms to the concept

Do you work for the N.Y.Times, or MSNBC?

I will agree with you on the Obama looking like an Egyptian point, but that is a positive thing. He has the look of a Pharoah.

You know there is a theory that Egyptians are descendants of aliens who came here and built the pyramids,...but I digress. I don't think we are open minded enough here to get into that.

So back to the foreigner thing.

Barack Obama and John McCain both put on a kilt, or better yet lederhosen.

In that context, the one you think is an Irish or German foriegner is likely McCain and the one you think is an American is likely Obama.

So, they are equally American and equally foreign.

In the end if you are not an American Indian, you ARE of foreign descent. The rest is a wash.

Human history is fascinating and ultimately we are all related.

Yes, all peoples traveled.

Not just since Adam and Eve, but since the first glorious sea slug, from which we all descend, crawled onto land.

Evolution and interconnectiveness are beautiful.

It is unfortunate that Kennewick Man is used as a means to abuse religious and cultural indigenous rights.

It is audacious and disturbing when right-wingers (for ideologically it is always them) march Kennewick Man out as a way to justify colonization and genocide.

Even with the Bering Strait theory, American Indians have been here 12,000 years, and much of the time in numbers as vast of Europe.

Read a book called 1491. Best American history book ever.

You may hot realize that when you go to the West coast, colonization and genocide of Native peoples is just past living memory.

Kennewick Man is an interesting and important course of study. But when talking about modern history, he is an anecdote hardly relevant to immediate issues of power, justice, and hegemony in this country.

But that opens a world of possibilities! Let's vote only based on looks! Man... the things I could say about McCain... UGH! Actually.. I'm starting to get sick to my stomach... uhh Let's leave this for later... But know that I think about it, that's why Sarah Palin exists! To balance off McCain's horrible looks! Now some good ol' folks might vote for him just because she's hot!

So the voting ballot doesn't need much but a few points like

Barack Obama - Democrat

Looks arab.

John McCain - Republican

Is white! and hot VP!

easy!

Jopaku says he will vote for someone else, if he could.
Julie has someone else she would rather vote for,
I wouldn't vote at all because Business men have bribed all of them, to be elected you must accept bribes.
If you both cannot (reality) vote for the one you want, there MUST be something wrong with the voting system.
It is madness to play a game if you know that other players will always cheat, and always win. Change the rules, change game.

But back to just now: So we must choose between BigBusiness candidate McCain and LargeEnterprise candidate Obama. But seriously, seriously, how did it come down to THESE two? Pathetic, this is not democracy, it is like prostitutes in brothel choosing who will be their street pimp to which they will pay all their money. pfffff! I will not vote, business will win, people will lose.

Last Edited on 23-Sep-2008 5:58 AM

I fully support the lack of complicity in a complicit system that you advocate above. However, for me, this is a rare time where I am voting for a candiate, not just against one. I deeply want more political parties. But at this moment in time, I also realistically want Barack Obama.

WORLD VIEW
Sees the whole picture, His actions and language suggest all people deserve a right to a quality of life. Seems equally interested in young, old, poor, middle-class, all ethnicities, and world diplomacy.

SYMBOLISM
Through him we can see the truer picture of America as a diverse, interesting, complex country, which is part of the world. And he certainly is, for those of you who covet it, "the American dream." And like us all, he is a global person. Unlike us all, he is aware of it.

EXPERIENCE
More than any candidate of my lifetime, he has been deeply exposed to many walks of life. This root experience of close relations with diverse people is more important than any singular religion or ideology.

He is somebody who has lived and been schooled with people from Indonesia, where he saw social hardship and victories, and witnessed his mother’s activism. His empathy and experience with people who are "different" is first hand and filial. His immediate life story stretches to three continents.

This is in contrast to McCain’s experience as a POW where the “other” was an enemy, not a friend. Of course it is amazing he survived being MAN IN A BOX. I could not. But that does not make him better to work with the world than someone who was out of the box and on the streets and in people’s homes.

As a community organizer, Obama made a choice to work with and for the poor. There is no better credential than this. He then chose to carry these convictions to work within the system for change. Some people have to do it through the system (and some out.) He is someone who is trying to better society honestly and strategically within.

Obama experience has enabled him to understand economic hardship, struggle, and success. He understands economic and social realities personally, experientially, academically, professionally, politically.

He taught Constitutional Law at the University of Chicago. This is especially significant since our current "president" is so anti-constitutional. It would be great to have a president who understands the constitution in a nuanced way.

He already has 10 years in state and federal public service. He understands both state and federal as an elected legislator.

POLICY
Opposed use of military force in Iraq. Called for troop withdrawal since 2006. More evolved environmental plans. From right-wing CNN: “Proposes reducing carbon emissions by 80 percent by 2050 by using a market-based cap-and-trade system. Would invest $150 billion over 10 years in clean energy. Supports next generation biofuels. Proposes increasing fuel economy standards and would require that 25 percent of electricity consumed in the U.S. is derived from clean, sustainable energy sources by 2025. Would create a Global Energy Forum and re-engage with the United Nations Framework Convention on Climate Change.”

Obama actually believes in diplomatic efforts and would always use those routes first. Although for those of you who are war happy, he is not nearly as overtly anti war as I would like.

Obama was involved in legislation that brought a great deal of attention to the genocide in Darfur. Is he the most liberal senator? Depends on which poll, which year, and how you define liberal. But if he is, then I would say that is a great thing for us all.

His concerns, frankly, are on all of the important things. Can you imagine "Drill, baby, drill?" the ultimate chant of ignorance and arrogant entitlement ever occurring during his speech?

ACTUALITY
My expectations of him are not unrealistic. I was slow to warm to him; he has been more conservative in some debates than I would like, especially next to Kucinich. But the more reading, studying and question-asking I did, the better I felt. Has he always had his eye on the presidency? Maybe. Is that bad? No, not if what you want to do is good.

Ultimately, an Obama presidency will encourage -- and hopefully help legislate -- positive social, environmental, economic, and diplomatic change. Social justice will be on the radar.

Given the illegitimate war and the economy, he IS the best option. And he isn't a compromise. He is really very exceptional in deed, word, and experience. Not perfect, but exceptional. And the best thing about him is that he inspires others to do good.

He's the right person at the right time. And I don't mean the right brown skinned person at the right time. He is all of the many things he is at once, this moment; "he contains multitudes."

I suspect you are trying to make adaptation mean "flip flop." Adaptability and multitudes do not mean lack of conviction or focus, but mean one is nimble and deep enough to see things from multiple perspectives, assess realistically, think critically, understand nuance and, therefore, have many resources to get important things done in ways that may not have been done effectively before.

More than anyone from either party, he has made attempts for bipartisanship, particuraly in regards to reforming the system.

Same sponsors, same policies, aame party, different faces.